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[–]ShadowPsi 857 points858 points ago

More specifically:

Jupiter weighs almost 25,000 times more than the moon. Massive water tides kilometers high would wipe out large numbers of people initially.

Then, tidal flexing of the earth's crust (100s of meters a day)would cause a massive increase in *volcanism, probably wiping out many of those who are left. The crust will become very hot, exacerbating the next issue.

Those who somehow survived the above would find themselves on a world that was growing increasingly hot. Jupiter actually puts out a large amount of thermal radiation, as it is still slowly contracting from the days of its formation. Right now it puts out twice as much energy as it receives from the sun. Moved to earth's orbit, there's still going to be a large new source of heating that will drive earth out of its current equilibrium. **

Finally, earth's rotation will slow down, the energy having gone into heating the earth's crust and moving its orbit out. The earth would spiral away from Jupiter for the same reasons that the moon is spiraling away from the earth today, only at a much faster pace. Eventually, the earth will be tidally locked to Jupiter, and the tides and volcanism will subside, perhaps to the level of Io now.

Edit: there will not be increase sightings of people from Vulcan. :|

Edit again: I decided to add in another calculation that I did in another post that shows that reflected sunlight would also be a severe problem.

Scroll down to Internal Heat in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter

We can extrapolate a bit further from the article:

Jupiter emits about 1 billionth the power of the sun or about 335 petaWatts.

Since it would be 400 times closer, it would add about .6% more energy to the earth's surface, not including what we would get from increased sun-light reflected off of the clouds.

I'm a bit tired to calculate the extra reflected sunlight that we would get, and it's not a trivial amount, but I'll try anyway. The moon has albedo of about .08, similar to coal. Jupiter has an albedo of .52, seven times higher.

The circular area of Jupiter for reflected light characteristics is 16060607043km2. The same number for the moon is 9478715km2. This is simply to calculate relatively how big in the sky they would appear. This means that a "Full Jupiter" would reflect about 1694 times as much sunlight if the albedo was the same, but it's not. It's seven times higher. Therefore, a full Jupiter would reflect 11860 times more light to earth than a full moon.

Since a full moon probably heats the earth by about .03°F according to a recent study, then we can extrapolate that Jupiter would add additional heating from reflected sunlight of about 335°F.

Sooooooo....when I set out to do this calculation, I though that the internal heat from Jupiter would be a big problem. Turns out that reflected sunlight would kill us all even without all the other crap.

To add injury to fatal injury, one likely effect of moving Jupiter to earth's orbit is that the upper atmosphere will heat up and expand a bit, making the effect even larger than I just calculated.

[–]astrograph 414 points415 points ago

boy that escalated quickly..

[–]EmpiresBane[!] 266 points267 points ago

I wouldn't even call that escalation. Three sentences in and everyone is dead.

[–]jamesf797 75 points76 points ago

whenever someone says "exacerbating" you know it's serious

[–]monglejohn 62 points63 points ago

I'm exacerbating right now

[–]slandau2 52 points53 points ago

What are you wearing?

[–]MehGusto 16 points17 points ago

I put on my wizard hat and robes

[–]johnsmith1580 1 point2 points ago

bloodninja is an internet hero

[–]ShenanigansYes 2 points3 points ago

uhhh...khakis

[–]Jackstick 1 point2 points ago

What do you mean?

[–]jamesf797 3 points4 points ago

ex·ac·er·bate Make (a problem, bad situation, or negative feeling) worse

[–]snowysnowy 2 points3 points ago

Shit just got real.

FTFY

[–]cralledode -1 points0 points ago

What do you mean?

[–]Cycle_Breaker 2 points3 points ago

ex·ac·er·bate

Make (a problem, bad situation, or negative feeling) worse

[–]cralledode 1 point2 points ago

failed shaun of the dead reference

[–]cralledode -2 points-1 points ago

What do you mean?

[–]Cycle_Breaker 6 points7 points ago

ex·ac·er·bate

Make (a problem, bad situation, or negative feeling) worse

[–]velvethammer44 1 point2 points ago

Sounds like every conversation with my wife.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

I call that a friday night

[–]NFLBLitz20002 0 points1 point ago

Two sentences actually, but who's counting when everyone dies anyways....eh life

[–]TheGreatGumbino 30 points31 points ago

Yea, Brick killed a man.

[–]thegrumpygnome 31 points32 points ago

Jupiter killed every man.

[–]kingbinji -1 points0 points ago

Anchorman.gif

[–]notanon 132 points133 points ago

would cause a massive increase in vulcanism

That's illogical.

[–]mdax8414 26 points27 points ago

Anyone can knock over a snowman.

Why is it illogical?

[–]Zagaroth 46 points47 points ago

woosh

Hint: Think star trek

[–]mdax8414 68 points69 points ago

I'll just show myself out.

[–]Zagaroth 2 points3 points ago

It's Ok, we all do it sometimes :)

[–]ShuckBeam 0 points1 point ago

YEAH YOU BETTER YOU FUCKIN SON OF A BITCH! I'LL KILL YOU!

[–]Ryo95 1 point2 points ago

Life improvement trick: always think star trek.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]thegrumpygnome 5 points6 points ago

"Treck" definitely shows that you're not an expert :P

[–]Deracination 0 points1 point ago

Bingo.

[–]feureau 1 point2 points ago

Increased proximity with jupiter is not known to cause higher rate of Pon Farr.

[–]getthefuckoutofhere 1 point2 points ago

it's a spock joke

[–]ncocca 1 point2 points ago

I believe it was a Star Trek reference, specifically to the Vulcan race, who are known for their logic and reason

[–]JClinch 0 points1 point ago

I think it was a reference to Star Trek. If not my upvote was misplaced.

[–]Gh0stP1rate 6 points7 points ago

I ran a bunch of numbers (kept calculations if interested), and discovered the following:

The gravity on earth would fluctuate by nearly 10% from normal depending on whether you were on the side nearest Jupiter or the side farthest Jupiter.

On the Jupiter side, you'd weigh 9% lighter, so you'd want to do things like move sofas, run marathons, and hike mountains. On the Far side, you'd weigh 8.6% more, so you'd want to lift weights, race cars, and pan for gold.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

We'd all be dead so this is irrelevant.

[–]Averant 1 point2 points ago

Spoilsport...

[–]stumo 4 points5 points ago

Massive water tides kilometers high would wipe out large numbers of people initially.

Eventually. If the moon suddenly vanished, we'd still have lunar tides for a while as they're mostly resonating. I'm not sure how quickly Jovian tides (great name for a book, btw) would rise to their full potential.

Also, you missed the effects of gravitational tides on earth's mantle and core. Things would get much more exciting seismically, and Earth's magnetic field would likely change in some way. Interaction with Jupiter's magnetic field would be interesting as well. Ours would likely link with Jupiter's at its poles.

[–]ShadowPsi 4 points5 points ago

Yeah, things would get very interesting in many many ways.

The new super tides would rise very fast. Tides are just the water trying to conform to the true gravitational gradient. The only thing to slow them down would be friction with the earth's crust and the fact that earth rotates too fast for them to build up fully. I think in many places, they would be severe enough to expose the ocean floor, and flood all but the highest mountains.

If the tides got high enough to spill from one ocean basin, over the continents, and into the next ocean basin, and I think they would, then they would no longer be constrained as much by the speed of the earth's rotation only having so long to affect each basin and we might even get more than just the 25,000x larger tides that you would expect from just doing the simple math.

Regardless of how high they were, the earth would be scraped flat in very short order now that I think about it even more. It would resemble a muddy oblong, ends pointed towards and away from Jupiter.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]ShadowPsi 5 points6 points ago

It all depends on what kind of momentum you gave Jupiter. Some possibilities.

1.Jupiter has zero orbital momentum (Not likely)- It would just fall into the sun. Depending upon whether it was ahead of earth's orbit or behind, it would fling earth out of the solar system or into the sun on it's way. Or maybe just to an orbit that took it near Pluto or near Mercury.

2.Jupiter has orbital momentum such that it would have the same orbit as the moon. - The earth would be moving too slowly to maintain its distance, and would fall towards Jupiter, but would be deflected into an elliptical orbit.

3.Jupiter is given an initial velocity that would allow earth to orbit it at about the same distance as the moon orbits the earth now. This is the scenario in the OP's picture, and what I used to base my speculation off of. The orbit would be messy at first, but I think that it could be done so that after a long time you could get a circular orbit approximating the earth-moon separation.

[–]Jisaw 10 points11 points ago

So... pretty much what happens when you stir tomato soup after it forms a skin on top?

[–]Deracination 0 points1 point ago

.......I'm pretty sure no.

[–]januszeal 0 points1 point ago

Actually kind-of.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

Tl;dr Everybody dies.

[–]rampart103 -2 points-1 points ago

Sooner or later!

[–]dimechimes 2 points3 points ago

...This means that a "Full Jupiter" would reflect about 1694 times as much sunlight if the albedo was the same, but it's not. It's seven times higher. Therefore, a full Jupiter would reflect 11860 times more light to earth than a full moon...

Thanks for this. My first thought was 'but the albedo'. A ctrl+f says you are the only one out of 2000+ comments to actually mention the albedo which totally destroys the 'realism' of this pic for me. It would never look like that.

[–]ClutchReverie 1 point2 points ago

Thanks for the apolocalypse story : )

[–]k3duckfan 1 point2 points ago

great answer! could you elaborate on Jupiter putting out twice as much energy as it receives from the sun? what type of energy and how?

[–]ShadowPsi 10 points11 points ago

Most of the energy comes out as infrared radiation and radio waves.

As to where the energy comes from, it's a bit complicated but fascinating. Basically it's the same sorta thing that happens when you drop something inelastic, say chewed gum. Where does the energy go when you drop your gum on the sidewalk? It turns to heat. Some noise, but mostly heat. Very little heat, because the gum doesn't weigh that much, and you can't drop it that far, and even if you could drop it far, there's terminal velocity to consider. Imagine dropping tons and tons of gum all at once, from a large height, and might begin to think that you could actually notice this heat.

Something similar is happening deep inside Jupiter. Jupiter started out as a pretty hot and pretty homogeneous ball of gas and dust, mostly hydrogen and helium, with other trace gases. But pretty much everything weighs more than Hydrogen. Ideally, all the heavy stuff would be in the center, and all the hydrogen would be on the outside. But it can't just fall that way, stuff gets in the way, and has to move out of the way. And to go back to the gum analogy, anything falling all the way from the outside of Jupiter to the inside is going to release a lot of stored gravitational potential energy as heat.

In Jupiter, you have quadrillions of tons of stuff that is heavier than Hydrogen slowly releasing gravitational energy as heat as the different materials slowly settle out. The process is no-where near complete and is still ongoing 4.6 bill0ion years later.

There are other sources of heat as well, such as radioactivity in the core, meteor impacts, etc., but the majority of heat comes from the slow settling of helium into the depths of the planet.

[–]k3duckfan 0 points1 point ago

that...makes sense! awesome explanation. thanks!

[–]skewp[!] 1 point2 points ago

"Vulcanism" is a valid spelling. Vulcan was the Roman god of fire and metal working. It's the root of the word "volcano."

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

Yeah, I knew that when I originally typed it. But I gave in to peer pressure and the fact that spell-checker didn't recognize it.

[–]skewp[!] 1 point2 points ago

Booooo. Firefox 13's spellchecker sees it as a valid word. I'll always spell it "vulcanism" because that's how it was spelled in the big-ass picture book of volcanoes I read as a kid.

[–]ShadowPsi 0 points1 point ago

I'm using Chrome, that's probably why. Also, lack of sleep.

[–]JamesTheGodMason 2 points3 points ago

Massive water tides kilometers high comes in, massive water tides kilometers high goes out... Can't explain THAT!

[–]kbrewsky 1 point2 points ago

Actually, I'm fairly sure that the Earth would be well inside the Roche limit of Jupiter. So it would likely break up and form some amazing rings. Not much consolation, but there it is.

[–]ShadowPsi 2 points3 points ago

The Roche limit for earth around Jupiter would be 108,559km. The earth-moon distance is 384,400km, so we'd be safe from that.

The Roche limit is affected by the density of the orbiting body. Earth is the densest thing in the solar-system, so it would be fine farther in than other things would be, and it's not even close here anyway.

[–]kbrewsky 0 points1 point ago

Indeed. Good catch. I had forgotten to take that into account. I guess using wolfram alpha for complicated calculations will lead to mistakes sometimes.

[–]harebrane 0 points1 point ago

You're dead on there.

[–]kbrewsky 0 points1 point ago

Unfortunately, I made a mistake. Check out ShadowPsi's post below.

[–]Gh0stP1rate 0 points1 point ago

So, is wolfram-alpha wrong, or is wikipedia wrong?

[–]big_dirt 1 point2 points ago

Wow, that was really informative and interesting, thank you!

Here's another serious question: If Jupiter replaced the Earth in terms of proximity to the sun, and Earth was a moon orbiting it while maintaining all the features it currently has, would humanity still be able to live/thrive on Earth?

This is something I've always wondered about, and you seem smart!

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

I'll copy a response to someone else in this thread here:

If earth was orbiting Jupiter instead, and Jupiter was near earth's current orbit.........

Earth would have tidally locked to Jupiter very early on. So there wouldn't be as massive a problem from tides. There would still be a lot of extra heat, so we might have a run-away greenhouse effect like Venus.

I think if you moved the whole thing out to about where mars is, and formed that way from the beginning, it might work out OK for life to develop... or at least life as we know it.

[–]big_dirt 0 points1 point ago

Awesome, thanks!

[–]chiropter 1 point2 points ago

Wouldn't there be a lot of ionizing radiation too? I think we'd need a stronger magnetic field...by the way, the interaction between Jupiter's magnetic field and ours would just fuck any satellites and possibly leave the surface open to cosmic rays at times.

Also, how close is Io relative to the Moon to us and also Europa to Jupiter.

Edit: so I see why now about the volcanism- the Moon is even closer to us than Io to Jupiter, which is 422,000 km away from Jupiter. 384,000 km from Earth to Moon. Meanwhile, Europa, a ball of ice, is 671,000 km away from Jupiter.

[–]ShadowPsi 4 points5 points ago

We'd see far more increased volcanism than those figures alone would imply. Simply because the earth rotates once a day. Io rotates exactly once per orbit around Jupiter, that's what tidally locked means.

Io probably once had a separate rotation period, but like our own moon, this wouldn't have lasted long. But this energy would have gone into increasing the heat of the crust even more as well as moving the orbit out.

As for the ionizing radiation. Yes, Definitely, but since earth has it's own field, we wouldn't get it as bad as Io does. At least at the surface. I think that the upper atmosphere would be a mess though. Satellites would have to be super hardened. Radiation levels at the surface would definitely be higher though.

I think it would be unlikely that we would have developed radio technology, at least as fast. Early experiments would have been drowned out by the noise from Jupiter (which you can hear from earth right now if you know how). Early experimenters might have concluded that the technology was useless.

[–]chiropter 0 points1 point ago

Isn't it also possible that undulations or waves in the magnetic field would potentially dip down to the Earth's surface? Combined with the gravitational churning of the Earth's internal structure that I'd think would affect Earth's dynamo, the fusing of field lines etc would involve a lot of chaotic behavior in the strength and structure of Earth's magnetic field that I'm wondering if it would leave Earth's surface exposed at times.

[–]RommelTJ 1 point2 points ago

This is how we kill the Batman.

[–]IntellectualWanderer 1 point2 points ago

I don't really feel like working out the equation right now, but I'm relatively sure that wouldn't happen. I might be wrong, but I feel like the Earth wouldn't be in a position to hold the orbit around Jupiter, so the whole planet would fall out of orbit in to Jupiter.

[–]ShadowPsi 2 points3 points ago

It all depends upon exactly what parameters Jupiter was magicked over there with. Since we are assuming the same velocity as the moon, earth would "try" to fall in, but would end up in an elliptical orbit around Jupiter. It might be closer, but how much depends upon too many factors. I think you could even arrange it so that earth got thrown out of the solar system.

[–]rubberbabybugybumper 1 point2 points ago

What changes would Jupiter see in itself from it's sudden close proximity to the Sun? I would imagine, after a long period of time, that it's outer gases would start to heat up and burn away, right?

[–]ShadowPsi 2 points3 points ago

Jupiter is too massive for them to burn away, though they would start to heat up. You'd have to get a lot closer before Jupiter started acting like a comet.

[–]RonanNoodles 1 point2 points ago

What about if we picked another planet... Just a little upgrade from the moon; Mars, perhaps?

[–]ShadowPsi 3 points4 points ago

Mars weighs about 8.7 times the moon. So tides would increase by that factor. We wouldn't all die. Might suck to have beach-front property though.

[–]Vegall_st 1 point2 points ago

Gravitational acceleration = G (mass earth * mass other body) / radius2. Crash into each other, hope you can swim in space.

[–]jordan314 0 points1 point ago

The earth would start orbiting Jupiter, no? Would they co-orbit? Would each have enough velocity to prevent crashing into each other?

[–]Number127 0 points1 point ago

Eventually, the earth will be tidally locked to Jupiter, and the tides and volcanism will subside, perhaps to the level of Io now.

I think Io's vulcanism is due to gravitational interactions with the other Galilean satellites, so if it's just the Earth orbiting Jupiter, there probably wouldn't be nearly so much once we became tidally locked (and cooled down a bit).

[–]ShadowPsi 0 points1 point ago

The earth is much larger and would take much longer to cool down. Also, the influence of the sun (much stronger in earth's orbit) would add a bit of chaos to the orbit.

[–]egokick 0 points1 point ago

also asteroids, tonnes of asteroids hitting the earth regularly because of jupiters gravity.

[–]rcgarcia 0 points1 point ago

Source?

[–]NINE_HUNDRED 0 points1 point ago

Eventually, the earth will be tidally locked to Jupiter, and the tides and volcanism will subside, perhaps to the level of Io now.

What would happen after this?

[–]harebrane 0 points1 point ago

Not much, that would be well inside Jupiter's Roche limit, thus Earth would become a pretty new set of rings for Jupiter.

[–]Gh0stP1rate 0 points1 point ago

I politely disagree - the wiki page sites the Jovian Roche limit at ~71,000km, where the moon's orbit is ~384,399km. We wouldn't disintegrate, we'd just have crazy tides.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]ShadowPsi 2 points3 points ago

It depends on how you set up the transport of Jupiter to earth. We're assuming that however it happened, Jupiter was just magically there with the same orbital parameters as the moon had.

Earth would switch to orbiting Jupiter instead of the other way around. The orbit would probably be initially highly elliptical until gravitational effect stabilized it.

The earth would "try" to fall towards Jupiter, but wouldn't collide given the conditions above.

[–]synn89 0 points1 point ago

Pretty sure there's a couple movies about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZocvme6cYc

[–]PopularPKMN 0 points1 point ago

But what if we were one of Jupiter's moons instead of incredibly close to it? Would the same effects still occur? Or would we still be fucked?

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

If earth orbiting Jupiter instead, and Jupiter was near earth's current orbit.........

Earth would have tidally locked to Jupiter very early on. So there wouldn't be as massive a problem from tides. There would still be a lot of extra heat, so we might have a run-away greenhouse effect like Venus.

I think if you moved the whole thing out to about where mars is, and formed that way from the beginning, it might work out OK for life to develop.

[–]Gh0stP1rate 0 points1 point ago

I think you're confused here about "incredibly close". Io orbits Jupiter at a distance of 421,700 km, and in OP's picture he states "if Jupiter were as close to Earth as the moon is". The moon orbits at a distance of 384,399 km, so the Earth-Jupiter system is very closely the Jupiter-Io system.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

You're also forgetting that we would likely immediately die from the magnetic field.

[–]popson 0 points1 point ago

Is it possible that Earth collapses into Jupiter? The Earth has about 81 times more mass than the moon. Jupiter has about 318 times more mass than Earth. I imagine the orbiting velocity would be a factor too. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

[–]vapulate 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, but what if we drilled a core to the center of Jupiter and detonated a nuke there?

[–]zirzo 0 points1 point ago

effectively would the earth become a satellite of the jupiter?

[–]harebrane 0 points1 point ago

Actually, it would be far worse even than that. The Moon is at an average of approximately 225,690 miles from Earth. Jupiter's Roche limit is ~440,000 miles. So we would slightly more than half the distance to Jupiter's Roche limit, and the Earth would be simply shredded by tidal forces, becoming a set of rings, which would eventually fall into Jupiter's atmosphere. edit: Correction, apparently the roche limit is much larger for an object with a fluid interior, and Io is about the same distance from Jupiter as Earth is from the Moon (slightly more, but not much) soo.. apparently you're right, we'd get an Io scenario. My bad, sorry.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

what about rotation speed.. the day/nighttime would change rapidly wouldnt it?

[–]ShadowPsi 4 points5 points ago

Io takes 1.7 days to orbit, also takes 1.7 days to rotate. Io is a bit farther from Jupiter that the earth-moon distance. So the earth would eventually slow its rotation speed to about a day and a half or so.

[–]DocomoGnomo 0 points1 point ago

"weighs"

LOL XD

[–]tuffguy53 0 points1 point ago

Bet you could get a couple of amazing buddy jumps on a trampoline before you kicked it though.

[–]emehrkay 0 points1 point ago

You should write science fiction, my dude.

[–]klobster 0 points1 point ago

I'm going to run a simulation of this when I get home

[–]ValyrianIce 0 points1 point ago

Curious; what were the results?

[–]klobster 0 points1 point ago

I haven't yet figured out how to make the planets actually collide but it drastically changed most of the planets orbits and glued itself to earth. i know there is a way to read the planets for physical changes, but I've only owned it for a few days (Thanks again Briguy9876).

[–]ValyrianIce 0 points1 point ago

I'm interested in how the orbits would have changed. I may just purchase it and find out for myself.

Thanks for the reply. Let us know if you find out!

[–]klobster 0 points1 point ago

I couldn't quite figure out how to make a moon, so I just moved Jupiter over. It's a really neat program, I wish I was smart enough to actually play with it.

[–]SafariOnMyCock 0 points1 point ago

What if Earth orbited Jupiter and fell into jupiter's shadow? Would the rapid increasing global temperature still subsist?

[–]ShadowPsi 3 points4 points ago

It would fall into the shadow for a few hours each orbit Each orbit would be about 36-40 hours. Not enough to offset the overall trend, especially as you get just the opposite problem when earth is between the sun and Jupiter. Then you daylight on one side, and massive amounts of reflected "Jupiter light" on what would have been the night side.

[–]kittyg92 0 points1 point ago

Maybe there is no global warming/end of the world. Maybe Jupiter just wants a new friend and wants to say hi to us.

[–]burnso 0 points1 point ago

Worst of all? No more Reddit...

Then what will I do with all my spare time? :(

[–]ApocalypX 0 points1 point ago

Initially that would all happen, but at the same time the Sun and Jupiter would repel each other until (eventually) Jupiter was more or less at its regular distance from the Sun, wiping out everything on its path.

[–]ShadowPsi 0 points1 point ago

How would Jupiter and the sun repel each other?

[–]ApocalypX 0 points1 point ago

Actually I messed that up. It would be the opposite of what I said.

[–]spacebarbarian 0 points1 point ago

hmm what about Uranus which doesnt radius as much heat?

[–]wkdown 0 points1 point ago

OK smartypants What happens to Jupiter being that close to the sun.

[–]greatunknownpub 0 points1 point ago

But it's so pretty...

[–]catchpen 0 points1 point ago

Picturing some type of Alien Bill O'Reilly Tide Meme here.

[–]mrpickles 0 points1 point ago

Gravity acts on all things of the same distance equally though.

Is there really enough difference from one side of the earth to the other to cause this?

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

Yes. Think about it, just multiply the effect of the moon's tides x 25,000. Tidal force goes up linearly with mass, and the inverse cube of distance. (gravity is inverse square of distance.)

[–]mrpickles 0 points1 point ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_force

Apparently 45% of tidal force is due to the sun! TIL

I can see now Jupiter being that close would wreak havoc on not just our ocean tides, but the molten core of the planet.

[–]RupertDurden 0 points1 point ago

I just wanted to say thank you for writing something so well thought out, clear and interesting. If you do not already do so, may I recommend frequenting /r/explainlikeimfive, where the idea is to take a massively complex idea and break it down in such a way that a child could understand. I think you would do very well.

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

Thanks. I'll look that subreddit over.

[–]randomboredom 0 points1 point ago

Correct me if I am wrong here but the sudden introduction of such a large mass, acting as a new orbiting center of gravity, induce enough tidal sheer force very quickly (minutes/hours) to actually cause the planet to break-up to some degree?

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

If it was much closer perhaps. Such a force would have to be similar to the kind of forces that an object would experience inside the Roche limit to break it up. I think that since the earth would be outside the Roche limit, this force would not be enough to break it up. I have another post in here somewhere with the exact numbers.

[–]Straight6er 0 points1 point ago

So what would happen if our moon ceased to exist?

[–]eithris 0 points1 point ago

tides would almost cease, oceanic currents get disrupted, earth's natural thermostat goes haywire. not sure if we'd freeze or boil but it would suck balls.

[–]ShadowPsi 0 points1 point ago

Supposedly, we'd lose rotational stability, and the tilt of the earth's axis would not hold at around 22°. Instead it would wander randomly, having pretty severe effects on climate.

[–]eithris 0 points1 point ago

i thought jupiter had a larger diameter than the distance between the earth and the moon, thus, if jupiter suddenly switched places with the moon we'd get sucked into it...

edit: nm, jupiter's diameter is only slightly more than half the center-to-center distance between earth and moon. i do wonder if we'd get sucked in or spun into a disk though

[–]ShadowPsi 0 points1 point ago

Also consider that radius is the important measure here, not diameter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

I enjoy a comment that seems well educated and void of faulty physics....but

Jupiter actually puts out a large amount of thermal radiation

Are you sure about this? Have a source? I mean, sure it could be possible as Jupiter is a massive boiling fucker which has more than enough energy to radiate something...but that much? Intuition tells me that would have died out loong ago if it radiated that violently. Earth still has a very molten core, but it stays very well shelled inside the surface.

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

Scroll down to Internal Heat in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter

We can extrapolate a bit further from the article:

Jupiter emits about 1 billionth the power of the sun or about 335 petaWatts.

Since it would be 400 times closer, it would add about .6% more energy to the earth's surface, not including what we would get from increased sun-light reflected off of the clouds.

I'm a bit tired to calculate the extra reflected sunlight that we would get, and it's not a trivial amount, but I'll try anyway. The moon has albedo of about .08, similar to coal. Jupiter has an albedo of .52, seven times higher.

The circular area of Jupiter for reflected light characteristics is 16060607043km2. The same number for the moon is 9478715km2. This means that a "Full Jupiter" would reflect about 1694 times as much sunlight if the albedo was the same, but it's not. It's seven times higher. Therefore, a full Jupiter would reflect 11860 times more light to earth than a full moon.

Since a full moon probably heats the earth by about .03°F according to a recent study, then we can extrapolate that Jupiter would add additional heating from reflected sunlight of about 335°F.

Sooooooo....when I set out to do this calculation, I though that the internal heat from Jupiter would be a big problem. Turns out that reflected sunlight would kill us all even without all the other crap.

To add injury to fatal injury, one likely effect of moving Jupiter to earth's orbit is that the upper atmosphere will heat up and expand a bit, making the effect even larger than I just calculated.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

Io being roughly a lick further from Jupiter than what the Moon is from Earth, why is Io still just at a mean 110K surface temperature if Jupiter can put out such amount of ambient heating? Not to mention the other moons too. Surely the ice on the surface can't reflect that much of the heat to almost negate its effect even though the albedo is higher than that of the moon? :o

EDIT:....the albedo values on the moons actually make sense for the surface temperatures the moons have. I'll be damned.

[–]kabukistar 0 points1 point ago

If Jupiter was moved to 1 AU from the sun, wouldn't most of its atmosphere burn away?

[–]ShadowPsi 1 point2 points ago

No. Jupiter has enough gravity to hold on to hydrogen in this orbit. According to current theory, it could never form here, but once it has enough mass, it would be stable if moved here.

It would puff up in size a bit though.

[–]robwinnfield 0 points1 point ago

Hey there. I thought tidal heating only happened if there was an orbital resonance with a third body that actually pulls the subject body apart...?

Can you clarify?

[–]ShadowPsi 2 points3 points ago

It happens any time that there is tide induced deformation of the crust. It does'n matter the source.

The moon heats the earth this way, but the reverse isn't true. This is because the earth spins faster than the moon orbits (1 day versus 28 days). The part of the earth that is under the moon is constantly being deformed up. This deformed part then spins ahead of the moon's position and relaxes. This back and forth motion adds heat to the crust.

You can see how this kind of thing can heat something up with silly putty. Take some and constantly knead it back and forth. You'll notice after a while that it will start to get warm. It'll even get hot if you do it fast enough. The moon isn't heated this way because it's tidally locked and always presents the same face to earth.

Also, because the bulge that the tides raise is always moving ahead of the moon, it pulls back on it a bit in the direction that the earth spins. This has the effect of slowing the earth's spin and also pulls the moon faster in its orbit. Well it would go faster, bit the intricacies of orbital mechanics means that instead it moves into a higher orbit.

Because of this effect, they keep needing to add leap seconds (they just added one a few days ago) as the earth slowly spins down, and the moon moves IIRC 1.7cm farther away from the earth each year. This process will eventually stop when the earth spins at the same speed that the moon orbits. I think this has been calculated to mean a 60 day "day", as the lunar orbit takes longer as it gets farther away as well.

Now, take all I said above, and multiply it by 25,000, and you'll see what Jupiter would do.

[–]6packG 0 points1 point ago

does that mean that exo-moons around gas giants will have a habitable zone that's further away from their stars than otherwise calculated? (Due to reflected sunlight and heating from tidal stress)

[–]ShadowPsi 0 points1 point ago

Yes. It'll probably be a while before we could detect such moons though.

[–]centurijon -2 points-1 points ago

Also eventually Jupiter (and Earth with it) would crash into the sun ... fairly quickly on a cosmic scale.

[–]SoulOfAegis -1 points0 points ago

While listening to an epic guitar solo by Dragon Force, reading this made me feel like one of those games where they explain what will happen if you don't stop evil genius/alien/prophesied catastrophe.

[–]I_FISTED_JESUS -1 points0 points ago

Sorry, but I highly doubt Jupiter weighs only 25,000 times as much as the moon... seriously people.

[–]ShadowPsi 2 points3 points ago

Look it up for yourself then and get back to us.

[–]I_FISTED_JESUS 1 point2 points ago

You are right sorry about that

[–]happywaffle -1 points0 points ago

its formation

its current equilibrium

its orbit

FTFY

[–]ShadowPsi 0 points1 point ago

I blame the fact that I didn't sleep at all last night. That's also why I'm Redditing so much instead of working.

[–]TheAntiZealot -1 points0 points ago

That's a joke. It might be true if the outer layer of jupiter's atmosphere where about the moon's distance away from our atmosphere.

But it's not even close if the center of jupiter's gravity were the same distance as the center of the moon's gravity. Jupiter's diameter is 11 times that of earths and 3 earths fit inside the big red storm.

It's a joke. If jupiter's core was the same distance from earth as the moon's core, then we'd be in jupiter's lower atmosphere. Gravity would be the least of our worries.

You're certainly poetic, however :P

[–]FrumpySnu -1 points0 points ago

I see a new Roland Emmerich film in the works.